Deaths per capita still higher among unvaxxed
By Guy Page
For the third consecutive month, a majority of Vermont residents who died of Covid-19 were vaccinated.
59.4% of November Covid-19 fatalities were fully vaccinated. In October, 58% were fully vaccinated, according to statistics provided today by State of Vermont statistician Erik Filkorn of Buildings and General Services (BGS).
In September, 76% of Vermont fatalities were Covid-19 ‘breakthrough’ cases who had been vaccinated (no breakdown between partially and fully vaccinated), according to data from the Vermont Department of Health.
As shown by the data (republished verbatim) sent this morning by Filkorn to Vermont Daily Chronicle, the rate of fatalities per capita was about 50% higher both October and November among the unvaccinated. At present, 72.9% of Vermonters are fully vaccinated.
From Oct 1 –31:
Among VT Residents there were:
Fully vaccinated deaths: 26 (rate of .61 per 10,000 residents).
Partially vaccinated deaths: 0
Unvaccinated Deaths: 19 (rate of .97 per 10,000 residents).
From Nov 1 – Nov 30:
Among VT Residents there were:
Fully vaccinated deaths: 19 (rate of .44 per 10,000 residents).
Partially vaccinated deaths: 0
Unvaccinated Deaths: 13 (rate of .69 per 10,000 residents).
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Categories: Covid-19
I will not comply. I’m done wasting my time saying/explaining more than that. Unvaxxed and damn proud!! I will not comply!
You are a pureblood, and should be proud of it.
This rag is worse than the Enquirer. If you believe this I got a wall to sell you.
None of this is at all meaningful unless and until we are provided the age of the person who died & if they had any underlying conditions & if so, how many?
Otherwise, since the vast majority of citizens are vaccinated & we know that the vaccine is not as efficacious against the Delta variant, of course the majority of deaths are in the vaccinated but my guess is that the critical information the state keeps withholding (for “privacy” reasons) explains much of why.
If 75% f the population is vaccinated and 25% is not, then there are three times as many vaccinated people as non-vaccinated. That there are 37% more deaths in a population 300% larger does not convey what you are implying it conveys.
What you say is true, Rob. I leave it to others to infer for themselves what the data mean.
But you don’t provide the data on percentages of population that are vaccinated versus those that are not, so others don’t have the all the data necessary to make a fully informed inference.
The numbers and “data” confirm two things. First the “vaccine” isn’t the panacea as we are told it is and second: It is up to the individual to seek out information and develop their own plan- be it treatment or reliance on government dogma.
True enough, but if you expect that the ratio of vaxxed to unvaxxed outside the hospital should also be represented for hospitalizations and deaths, then you have pretty low expectations for the vaccine.
Re: “… does not convey what you are implying it conveys.”
Unless, of course, the implication is that the vaccines are only marginally effective compared to what we were initially led to believe. Why are any vaccinated Vermonters dying from the virus? What will we say when everyone is vaccinated, and Vermonters are still dying? … which appears to be a more and more likely scenario. ‘Well, it could have been worse had no one been vaccinated’???
Again, your implication of this data, Rob, isn’t the same as mine. Vaccine efficacy is clearly decreasing more and more over time, ergo booster shots. Furthermore, given that no Vermonter under the age of 18 has died from Covid since the beginning of the pandemic, even while none of that age group were vaccinated until just recently, begs the question why we are recommending they be vaccinated at all?
The implication I derive from this report is that we should all compare vaccine performance with the efficacy of natural immunity reported in the 100 or so worldwide studies on that data. And we especially should check out this recent study from Qatar.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/facts-matter-nov-29-new-study-shows-naturally-immune-people-at-little-risk-of-reinfection-severe-disease_4129735.html
Jay, I’m not saying everyone needs to be or should be vaccinated. You do you, as the saying goes. I just want people to make that decision for themselves based on a solid understanding of the risks on both sides of the equation. I don’t think presenting these numbers in this way furthers that goal for anyone.
Well, at least Guy’s citation provided the incentive for us to discuss these various perspectives for the benefit of anyone who cares to read them.
Speaking of presenting numbers. Are you aware that the VT Dept. of Health cohort of unvaccinated Vermonters has been significantly understated over the three-month period Guy cites? – because nearly 100,000 kids under the age of 18 haven’t, until just recently, been included – because they were classified as ‘not eligible’ for the vaccines? Think about how that exclusion affected the percentage data… and how it will affect percentage data going forward as these kids are included in the vaccinated cohort.
Hahaha… You read The Epoch Times, the publication of that Chinese cult? Too funny…
This is the readership you attract, Guy?
Mr Moyers,
The Epoch Times is a Chinese Cult?????? Please enlighten us.
Come on, John. True colors. Now you revert to Alinsky’s Rule #5 – ridicule the messenger, avoid the substance.
All other things being equal, the November statistics reveal that you are 1.97 times more likely to die from Covid if you are not vaccinated than if you are fully vaccinated. This is the benefit side of the analysis. The risk side is what bothers me, and I presume everyone else who decides to forgo the jab. This seems to be where the majority of the cover-up is happening. I would like to see honest statistics that back up the claim that the vaccines are safe.
We just buried my brother in law who took the vaccine because he was refused treatment for his cancer if he wasn’t vaxxed. He was told he would live for six months if he got cancer treatment. Four weeks later and riddled with agonizing blood clots from the vaccine he died. His wife also got the “vaccine”. She’s a fitness nut who RAN up the Mt. Washington auto road. Just after her husband died she had a serious heart attack. Heart damage caused by the “vaccine”. The “vaccine” doesn’t prevent illness – it causes it, like it was intended to do.
Re: “the November statistics reveal that you are 1.97 times more likely to die from Covid if you are not vaccinated than if you are fully vaccinated.”
Keep in mind that the ‘not vaccinated’ group has been significantly understated until very recently. Because, as I mentioned above, the unvaccinated cohort didn’t include approximately 100,000 Vermonters 18 years old and younger. When these kids are added to the mix, the likelihood of death drops by more than half because none of these kids have died of Covid since the beginning of the pandemic.
I agree with Mr. Roper. Not everyone looks deeper at the numbers and it is misleading to simply state that more vaccinated people died of COVID than unvaccinated when 80%+ of us are vaccinated.
It’s one of the limitations of news reporting. A headline states an important fact. The context, the nuance, the “yes, but” completion of the thought is contained in the news story. The editor hopes the reader will read and understand both. The story should never contradict the headline – but it should more fully explain it.
Case in point Kendra, et al – is it ‘mis-leading’ to state that – it’s misleading to state the fact that more vaccinated Vermonters are dying from Covid than are unvaccinated Vermonters? No doubt – Guy’s headline is provocative. That’s the purpose of having commentary cross examination in the first place. And its why media outlets like VT Digger, VPR, Seven Days and even my local Brattleboro Reformer, censor certain viewpoints.
Both you and Rob Roper have expressed the opinion that the headline is misleading or assigns certain (but unidentified) implications. Yet neither of you explain why you’re concerned.
The fact of the matter is that more vaccinated people are dying of Covid than unvaccinated people. When everyone in Vermont is vaccinated, assuming that may happen, what should the headline say when Vermonters are still dying from the virus? This is not a rhetorical question. I sincerely would like to know your response. Perhaps I will learn something.
And why is it that we are now vaccinating 100,000+- Vermont children under the age of 18 when, over the entire span of this current pandemic (almost two years now), until just recently at least, none of these children were vaccinated, only four became sick enough to go to the hospital, and none of them died?
And why is there no data on Natural Immunity?
Is it misleading to ask these questions?
Rob, there are lies, damned lies and statistics, or “Experts”. I believe though your point has validity, it doth lack much perception. Should we not be concerned with all the lies leading up to this stat more than a misleading headline? Of course I understand and believe most do, that 450,000 vaxxed who die or get the illness equals a vastly lower percentage than 175,000 un jabbed. More importantly left out of that stat is, how many have died from the jab and died from the draconian measures taken since the 15 day lie? That stat we may never know.
Re: “Should we not be concerned with all the lies leading up to this stat more than a misleading headline?”
What lies are you addressing?
Talk about misleading, I’m curious why no one is addressing ‘the fact’ that the State’s ‘unvaccinated’ cohort didn’t include 100,000+- Vermonters 18 years of age and younger during the period Guy’s statistcs cover.
Doesn’t anyone want to take this on?
This is the first time I am seeing the ‘partially vaccinated’ category. That is an important distinction, and glad to see it is finally being tracked. It appears to be 0, but at least it is now a category.
Rob’s point is accurate, but isn’t that included above in the rates given for each category? Somewhat higher for unvaccinated. The real point is neither rate justifies mandates (vax, masks, etc….) nor lockdowns. The death toll worldwide as a direct result of the lockdowns is staggering – UN estimates 250,000 children in south Asia alone. Lockdowns kill people and they are done with not a shred of proof that they help in any way; and absolute knowledge of their devastation.
There have been more than 100 studies around the world indicating that natural immunity (being infected and developing natural antibodies) among unvaccinated people is as effective, or more so, at protecting people from Covid than are vaccines.
“According to a new study that came out of Qatar and was published in the New England Journal of Medicine, those who have already suffered from COVID-19, and therefore have natural immunity, are very well protected against future infections.
In fact, this study found that among the people who already had COVID-19, only 0.4 percent got it again—and among those reinfections, over 99 percent were mild cases.”
“There were no cases of death among the reinfected.”
https://www.theepochtimes.com/facts-matter-nov-29-new-study-shows-naturally-immune-people-at-little-risk-of-reinfection-severe-disease_4129735.html
And what of the deaths due to the vax? What about the heart attacks, strokes and other killers? Why are the ICU’s packed; it’s not due to an overload of Covid cases.
It’s getting pretty obvious that these vaccines are not effective. That, plus the 18,000 deaths due to the vax (vaers) and the thousands of other adverse reactions and the fact that we don’t know the effect years down the road says to me that it’s not worth the risk. There are over 60 peer reviewed medical papers touting the success of early treatment with ivermectin. Why are we in VT not allowed to get a prescription for ivermectin? These are legitimate concerns. Why is our governor pushing the vax on children? I’m going to call him Pharma Phil From now on.
When is enough going to be enough? The FEAR.. The HORROR…
The plan is to make people so desperate for it to go back to NORMAL that they will go and get injected with something they know absolutely nothing about (ingredients)… it is never going back to NORMAL folks…..
How can we REALLY trust and use the numbers given by the State and/or Federal Governments for ANYTHING COVID??
If the Covid tests are flawed then the case numbers are inaccurate. Do we have separate numbers for those who die “with Covid” verses those who die “of Covid?”
Can we REALLY BELIEVE the numbers for those who have died or been injured from the “vaccine?”
And what is their definition of “vaccinated”.
2 shots plus a booster now? Funny how definitions conveniently change for the occasion all to often 🤔
Are we back to the question: did these people die BECAUSE of covid or WITH covid. Even if they died with underlying conditions what is the evidence that covid exacerbated it? Could not the “normal” influenza strain precipitate this outcome? Then what?
I just finished getting all the Vivid Face plus booster . If I had read this earlier I would not have been vaccinated . Now I’m wondering what is going to happen to me . My Dr just told me today that Covid and the Variances will never be cured because the unvaccinated people are the ones that are keeping it spreading . I’D LIKE TO KNOW WHO AND WHAT TO BELIEVE ????????
“I’D LIKE TO KNOW WHO AND WHAT TO BELIEVE ????????”
I would suggest you do your own research. The following article in the “International Journal of Vaccine Theory, Practice and Research” may be a good place to start. It covers multiple, but not all, concerns about mRNA vaccines and at the end, lists all of the scholarly articles cited in the paper. You will see a plethora of terms/topics that you can, and should, research independently; but to effectively do so, you will need to stay away from Google, fact checkers and the main stream media. There are so many other sources of information out there about the vaccine, COVID-19, and treatments for the infection that you can/should evaluate…
Worse Than the Disease? Reviewing Some Possible Unintended Consequences of the mRNA Vaccines Against COVID-19
https://ijvtpr.com/index.php/IJVTPR/article/view/23/51
The real question is why are the hospitals so full? The gov. said only 6-8% of hospitilized vermonters have covid. So have we only had a 10% overflow capacity in the past or are there more vermonters in the hospital for some other reason. They say its due to healthcare delays due to the “pandemic ” but is anyone actually looking at why these people are hospitalized and how many have taken the mrna injections and which kind? I know of a lot of local people in my area that have had heart attacks and strokes lately that dont fit the profile of people generally prone to those types of events. All were “vaccinated, some were recently “boosted.” Instead the gov’s answer is more injections. Definitely take them if you haven’t yet and take more if you already have….oh, and give them to your healthy children that have virtually zero risk from covid and the best chance to safely gain natural immunity, and are likely most at risk for adverse cardiac events as a result of their body’s mass production and distribution of abrasive, cytotoxic spike proteins causing irreversible damage and harm. We are all being manipulated and lied to.
The part that should be somewhat alarming to people is that if the VT numbers are correct and 75% of our ICU and hospitalized covid patients are unvaxxed and then 60 – 70% of our deaths ARE vaxxed – One may infer that once hospitalized, you are much more likely to die if you are vaxxed. The UK and Israel data showed this, this past summer. Now their hospitalizations are mostly vaccinated as are their deaths.
Deja Vu – all over again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1jV3tJ2Lqw
Watch the video to its end, interspersed with Madison Avenue cigarette ads. Today, instead of cigarettes, media outlets as benign as Front Porch Forum include vaccine debates and advertisements for CBD (Marijuana).
Is this trend in cronyism, that began with the advent of mass media, a big deal? I don’t know. But, in my humble opinion, as a person who was trained to advertise, it’s certainly worth your scrutiny.
The problem with crying wolf is that one day, the wolf shows up. And, sometimes, the wolf is in sheep’s clothing. In any case, a little skepticism can balance sometimes dangerous impetuosity. All I’m saying is – think for yourself, if you still can.
Let’s get this straight: the data you cite shows the death rate of unvaxed roughly 50% *higher* than vaxed. Yet you made the editorial decision to focus on raw numbers? Was that an honest mistake or a deliberate effort to mislead the gullible?
Your headline is misleading, to say the least — and contradicted by the data you posted. Why not the headline, “Death Rate of Unvaxed 50% Higher Than Vaxed.” That’s what the data say, correct?
Whatever your error or intent, just read the comments on this blog post — your readers clearly took the post as evidence that vaccines don’t work. You going to set them straight? Or was that what you set out to do?
John, the headline is relevant and factually correct. More vaxxed died than unvaxxed. The story provided the context – the RATE however is higher. Clearly stated. You say tomato, I say tomahto.
It’s not ‘tomato’ vs ‘tomahto.’ The data show unvaxed dying at 50% *higher* rate than vaxed. Yet you devise and publish a headline that suggests the opposite — and then you hide behind ‘journalism is hard’ and ‘just the facts.’ So I guess you’re saying you have no responsibility for writing a misleading headline that your readers were clearly misled by (judging from their comments) because it’s on them if they failed to read closely enough to understand. Are you calling your readers stupid? Because YOU understand the fact that the death rate of unvaxed is 50% *higher* than vaxed, right? And you refuse to point out to your misled readers that — WHOOPS! — they have read the data wrong, that the data in fact show the opposite of what they took it to mean?
The fact that the Covid “vaccine” doesn’t work is MORE THAN OBVIOUS if you choose to see all the evidence, situations and circumstances that have been reported all over the world in the past year plus.
Ask yourself why the State/Federal Governments are STILL PUSHING this “vaccine.” If the cases now are variants/mutations, what good is the original Covid “vaccine?” What good are “boosters” for the original “vaccine?”
Ask yourself why the Congress, Senate, Biden Administration, All Postal Employees, Etc. have been exempted from the “vaccine.” Many others in the CDC, NIH and other Government Agencies have stated they are NOT GETTING the “vaccine.”
One and a half million persons have come over the southern border in the past 10 months unvetted for health and they ARE NOT mandated to get the “vaccine.”
IS ANY OF THIS LOGICAL/REASONABLE????
Re: ““Death Rate of Unvaxed 50% Higher Than Vaxed.”
John: What are you setting out to do? If the vaccines are working, why aren’t they working?
Why are any vaccinated people dying of the virus?
Are you implying that when everyone is vaccinated, the deaths will stop and the pandemic will be over?
How many deaths of vaccinated Vermonters is acceptable when we were initially told the vaccine was more than 90% effective? Only to learn that vaccinated people can be infected, re-infected, pass on the disease, require hosptialization and, in fact, die at a rate only 50% less unvaccinated people.
Are you aware that the unvaccinated cohort included in these statistics hasn’t, until just recently, included the 100,000 or so Vermont children under the age of 18 who were not vaccinated? Are you aware that none of these children, even while being unvaccinated, died from Covid?
How many booster shots will be required as we learn the vaccine efficacy is only 6 months or so?
Why are we vaccinating children under the age of 18 when they are at such low risk?
Why is there no discussion of Natural Immunity?
https://www.theepochtimes.com/facts-matter-nov-29-new-study-shows-naturally-immune-people-at-little-risk-of-reinfection-severe-disease_4129735.html
If Guy’s intent was to stimulate discussion and self-awareness, he’s been more than succesful. To assume that any of us are misleading anyone else by asking these questions is – misleading.
Guy’s numbers show the death rate of unvaxed is about 50% higher than the death rate of vaxed. What does that suggest to you?
Re: “What does that suggest to you?”
That there are more vaccinated deaths than anyone ever expected.
Pretty lame dodge — ‘just the facts.’ Sure, you posted the rates, but in the headline you wrote, you chose to emphasize the raw numbers (apples-to-oranges) not apples-to-apples (the per capita rate). Comments on the post clearly show your readers got the wrong impression from your headline — they got the one implied by your headline.
So the questions stand: will you point out at the headline level that death rates are *higher* for unvaxed? That’s what the data you posted shows, correct?
Dear Mr. Moyers,
No offence intended –
Guy is just trying to report what he has been given. He has the freedom to use the words and format he chooses. We all interpret differently. We are all unique individuals with differing points of view. Are you trying to shoot the messenger?
Why are you using so much of your time and brain power to argue about numbers that can’t be confirmed or verified in the first place? There are too many variables/unknowns.
Yes, the ‘published’ death RATE* is higher for unvaccinated Vermonters. But the car we were sold was supposed to have four wheels, not two. And just because the unvaccinated car only has one wheel doesn’t make the vaccinated car with two wheels more drivable.
*Again, not only is the referenced RATE questionable, because those ‘not eligible for the vaccine’ (the children 18 years of age or less) weren’t included in the ratio, speaking of misleading statistics, we never see data on the effectiveness of Natural Immunity for comparison.
Lies, damned lies and statistics.
“just because the unvaccinated car only has one wheel doesn’t make the vaccinated car with two wheels more drivable’
Great analogy! 😹
If you are in the car with one wheel, but have a stash therapeutics that you can take early on, you might be just be better off than the car with two wheels…
Well John, you obviously didn’t comprehend what Jay just wrote. You are in such a hurry to defend your vaccinated status that you apparently refuse to see that 100,000 unvaccinated children haven’t died and have even rarely been sick. It is you and stubborn others that are either fearful that you took the jab and can not face the fact that maybe you shouldn’t have. Have you ever seen the lawyer class action pharmaceutical drug ads on TV about people who took FDA drugs and have been injured? How about the history of pharmaceutical drugs throughout the years like thalidomide? Having a skeptical public is healthy for getting the truth out to people like you and others. We should not be injecting children with this experimental use drug that has not even been approved in the normal trials. This is not a vaccine, it is an experimental gene therapy elixir rushed into use and now the results are showing up.
So, all of you on this comment thread agree: Unvaxed death rate is about 50% higher than vaxed death rate — that’s straight from the data that Guy posted. So, in other words: compared apples to apples (on a per capita basis), unvaxed covid death rate is *higher* than vaxed death rate. That’s what the date says, correct?
Again, yes and yes. But that doesn’t change the fact that more vaccinated Vermonters are dying from Covid than are unvaccinated Vermonters – yes – that’s what the data says, correct?
As a raw number, yes — more vaxed died. **But there are 400% more vaxed people than there are unvaxed people.** If we wanted some indication of vaccine effectiveness, it would mislead us to look at raw numbers because one group is so much larger than the other. Instead, we’d ask: Of all the people getting covid, what is the death rate within each group, vaxed vs unvaxed? That’s the apples-to-apples comparison. And right now, the death rate of unvaxed is about 50% higher than vaxed.
When Guy wrote his headline, he misled you. He emphasized the raw numbers. He pointed you toward a conclusion directly contradicted in the body of his report. He made no effort to explain the difference between the raw numbers and the rate or why that distinction is so important to getting a clear picture. He buried the news when his headline should have been, “Death Rate of Unvaxed 50% Higher Than Vaxed.” Journalism is hard…
They’re all raw numbers. Nothing was mis-stated. You preferred the chicken came first. Guy cooked the egg. I get it.
Guy himself admits that’s what the data says. But he writes a sensational and misleading headline and you all swallow it hook, line and sinker. You all use that headline — not the data itself — to confirm your belief that the vax doesn’t work. But it does work — death rate of unvaxed is 50% *higher* than vaxed. That’s what the data says. Deal with it.
And tomorrow, the numbers will change. Going down a rabbit hole of numbers and statistics is counterproductive. What the headline says is factual, in the context written. The fact remains that the Government push for “vaccination” is not the answer to the SARS-CoV-2 epidemic. There are other solutions, that probably offer better results. We won’t know until these solutions are tried. The Government is preventing widespread usage of these alternatives. A logical solution to the government interference problem is for the individual to research and have a treatment plan available- regardless of “vaccination” status. Remember, it’s the “vaccine” that isn’t performing as advertised ( the politicians are performing, as advertised)
All of this may be moot, as the dreaded omicron variant emerges as the dominant variant. It may well be that omicron is as some hypothesize- more transmissible but less lethal (and less sickness resulting) perhaps even leading us out of the hysteria surrounding SARS-CoV-2.
Yes, by ALL MEANS let’s keep up the FEAR PORN AND GASLIGHTING to be sure and create more PSYCHOSIS.
After ALL, there’s NOW a new variant of Covid. The OMICRON (MORONIC) VARIANT. I think this is the variant our State/Federal Government Leaders and Politicians have??
GOD Help Us ALL!
1. In a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”, I’m surprised that that the differences in the per capita rates are so small: .36 per 10,000 in October and .25 per 10,000 in November.
2. I accidentally “liked” your comment ~ 🤦♀️.
3. You said earlier, “Hahaha… You read The Epoch Times, the publication of that Chinese cult? Too funny…
This is the readership you attract, Guy?”
Please grow up and interact in a civil manner.
John,
Good luck trying to get through to people here. Anytime a COVID-19 or vaccine related article is published some comments take a turn towards the illogical, unintelligible, and/or conspiratorial.
Yes you interpreted the data right and yes Guy used an accurate but extremely misleading headline. Anyone inferring the data otherwise is experiencing the base rate fallacy.
Dear Christian,
I would challenge you to dig deeper in your thinking. People are very unique individuals with very diverse personalities, abilities and worldviews. We each “see” and “understand” situations/circumstances from our own foundational beliefs and experiences.
What some like you may see as “illogical, unintelligible, and/or conspiratorial” is very logical, intelligent and non-conspiratorial to others.
Allowing for the freedom of individual uniqueness unleashes creativity.This is the beautiful and exceptional foundation our Founding Fathers laid out for our Constitutional Republic form of Government in our United States of America,
ALL persons are unique and equally valuable, ALL unique persons are equally free and ALL unique persons have equal freedom of speech.
Please don’t join in with many in our present culture who are trying to make us ALL robots believing the same, thinking the same, talking the same and acting the same. We are NOT!
INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM IS ESSENTIAL FOR LIFE!
Dear VTBeliever,
We are all entitled to our own opinions (mine and yours included). We are not entitled to our own facts.
Dear Christian,
I agree with you. When facts are absolutely certain they should take precedent over opinion.
Specifically, what facts do you say are in question?
What information do you include in your statement as being, “illogical, unintelligible, and/or conspiratorial?”
VTBeliever,
Well we agree one at least one thing, progress.
Sure we can get into this if you want. Here are a couple of examples from this thread without listing every single comment from every article on this website:
(1) “This seems to be where the majority of the cover-up is happening. I would like to see honest statistics that back up the claim that the vaccines are safe.”
Response: Absolutely no data to support that a “cover-up” exists. Therefore I think this is conspiratorial.
(2) “That, plus the 18,000 deaths due to the vax (vaers) and the thousands of other adverse reactions and the fact that we don’t know the effect years down the road says to me that it’s not worth the risk. ”
Response: Absolutely no data to backup the death or adverse reaction claims here. Continuing to wrongly use VAERS data is illogical.
(3) “One and a half million persons have come over the southern border in the past 10 months unvetted for health and they ARE NOT mandated to get the “vaccine.””
Response: Misleading use of data. “Of the 1.66 million migrants encountered in FY 2021, about two-thirds of all encounters by the Border Patrol between ports of entry resulted in migrants being immediately expelled. ” The remaining one-third resulted in migrants being detained or released inside the United States. (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/news/2021-migration-us-mexico-border)
(4) “Ask yourself why the Congress, Senate, Biden Administration, All Postal Employees, Etc. have been exempted from the “vaccine.””
Response: Factually inaccurate and illogical. Executive orders can only apply to certain workers. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/09/20/fact-check-biden-cant-mandate-vaccines-congress/8384930002/)
Hope this helps.
GOOD NEWS FOR ALL HEALTHCARE WORKERS THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES!!
A sane and critical thinking CONSTITUTIONAL Judge has halted the “Covid Shot” mandate for ALL heathcare workers!
Read his reasoning in the PDF Court Document linked below. The Judge recognizes in his writing, the insanity of mandating a “Shot” and/or a “Booster” that has proven NOT to work. He also speaks about the ignoring of natural immunity. It’s worth the read.
Great Encouragement for Our Constitutional Republic!! Thank you Judge Doughty!!
Thank you President Trump for appointing him!!
https://agjefflandry.com/Files/Article/12984/Documents/NationwideInjunction.pdf
I am really thunderstruck by all of the disinformation and misinformation and general weirdness going on here. I remember polio—a number of my schoolmates were on crutches and in iron lungs. My eyesight was damaged from measles. I am grateful to science for vaccines. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-usa/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-do-not-kill-more-people-than-they-save-fda-experts-did-not-make-this-false-claim-idUSL1N2QP18K
Gina,
Where does a person begin in responding to your sweeping generalization? If you would really like
clarification on something, please be specific.
You said,”You are thunderstruck by all of the disinformation and misinformation and general weirdness going on here.”
Your statement saying “you are grateful to science for vaccines” in a back and forth discussion about “Covid Shots” is weird to me. Have you done any research on what a vaccine is and does?
It is absolutely incompetence on your part to not discuss the vaccine beyond the fact that inhibits the Ace2 protein with excess spike proteins will scientifically create the problems seen. Why have you not looked into this and why is this not a central point of your publication?
Mr. Melamede,
If you think that information is important then share it. Why are you using the tactics of belittling and condescension? Why are you dictating what someone else should say? This is an open forum for sharing and discussion.
Remember: This is the United States of America which is a Constitutional Republic. We are all equally valuable and we all have the same freedom of speech.
all this says to me is both vaccinated and unvaccinated are dying so why all the mandates?
Dear Christian,
We are waiting patiently for you to write and share the information you were referring to in your statement as being, “illogical, unintelligible, and/or conspiratorial?”
Dear vtbeliever,
I responded to you yesterday. Scroll up a little and you should see my response.
Hello Christian,
No offence intended, but your answers have proven my earlier point that we all have individual interpretation of information and circumstances. Admittedly, TRUTH and FACTS are very hard to find and confirm in our information overload, cyber world. You have linked some articles to supposedly prove your point of view and I could link other articles to do the same. It really comes down to what we believe, how we think and interpret and what sources of information we trust. My answers to your 4 points are below.
(1) “This seems to be where the majority of the cover-up is happening. I would like to see honest statistics that back up the claim that the vaccines are safe.”
Response: Absolutely no data to support that a “cover-up” exists. Therefore I think this is conspiratorial.
My answer: Many including me would disagree with your view. Logic, reason and common sense are showing us many reasons NOT to trust what we are being told “officially” about Covid and the Covid Shot.
Here are some:
1.) There are many varied existing medicines that have been proven to work for Covid. Why
aren’t they being offered freely and openly to the public? Instead they have been banned
or made very difficult to get.
2.) With the very high recovery rate for Covid overall, it didn’t warrant being called a pandemic
or emergency yet, two years later the fear and hype are still being pushed daily.
3.) Why are they hiding the ingredients of the Covid Shot?
4.) Why are they ignoring the existing Laws for “informed consent for medical procedures?”
5.) We now know the original Covid Shot is NOT working for immunity or contagiousness yet,
they keep pushing it hard, not admitting reality.
6.) Natural immunity of those who have had Covid is being ignored. Why?
7.) There are many reported deaths and injuries from Covid Shots. Why are they ignored?
(2) “That, plus the 18,000 deaths due to the vax (vaers) and the thousands of other adverse reactions and the fact that we don’t know the effect years down the road says to me that it’s not worth the risk. ”
Response: Absolutely no data to backup the death or adverse reaction claims here. Continuing to wrongly use VAERS data is illogical.
My answer: There are many, many sources for the testimonies of the persons who have been injured by the Covid Shot as well as those from family members who have lost loved ones after taking the Covid Shot. Many doctors have reported how hard it is to have the Vaers System accept their submissions of Covid injuries or deaths. The Vaers System currently reports over 10,000 deaths as of December 2021. I personally think the stated 18,000 number of deaths you object to is low. The doctors I trust say the Vaers System reflects about 10 – 15% of what is really happening.
(3) “One and a half million persons have come over the southern border in the past 10 months unvetted for health and they ARE NOT mandated to get the “vaccine.””
Response: Misleading use of data. “Of the 1.66 million migrants encountered in FY 2021, about two-thirds of all encounters by the Border Patrol between ports of entry resulted in migrants being immediately expelled. ” The remaining one-third resulted in migrants being detained or released inside the United States. (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/news/2021-migration-us-mexico-border)
My answer: We don’t really know the number of illegals that have entered and are now living in the United States this year. My point was about Covid. If Covid is so bad as to need to mandate a shot to everyone throughout the US, why aren’t we giving shots to illegals being processed at the border?
(4) “Ask yourself why the Congress, Senate, Biden Administration, All Postal Employees, Etc. have been exempted from the “vaccine.””
Response: Factually inaccurate and illogical. Executive orders can only apply to certain workers. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/09/20/fact-check-biden-cant-mandate-vaccines-congress/8384930002/)
My answer: Each President takes an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States which is the Supreme Law of our Land. There is no authority given in our Constitution to the Executive Branch (President) to be able to mandate/order that all people take an experimental medical treatment/shot. Even the approved regular vaccinations have exemptions recognizing individual Freedom. There are many Laws in place that make this edict illegal. A President is charged in the US Constitution with seeing that ALL United States Laws are executed. The United States is a Constitutional Republic NOT a monarchy or dictatorship.
My original point was: IF we are to believe that Covid is SO serious, why have many, many persons been exempted from the edict of shot mandates? To me, it’s a glaring contradiction.
vtbeliever,
Going to get hard to format my replies but I am going to try!
1.) There are many varied existing medicines that have been proven to work for Covid. Why
aren’t they being offered freely and openly to the public? Instead they have been banned
or made very difficult to get.
Please provide data showing the medicines you are talking about are “proven to work”.
2.) With the very high recovery rate for Covid overall, it didn’t warrant being called a pandemic
or emergency yet, two years later the fear and hype are still being pushed daily.
This is an opinion. Many people look at the fatality rate for older age groups and hospitalization rates for many age groups and see a major crisis
3.) Why are they hiding the ingredients of the Covid Shot?
Who is hiding the ingredients in the COVID vaccines? A simple google led me to this page which has ingredient lists, what more do you need? https://portal.ct.gov/Coronavirus/Covid-19-Knowledge-Base/Vaccine-Ingredients
4.) Why are they ignoring the existing Laws for “informed consent for medical procedures?”
Who is ignoring these laws? Please explain more.
5.) We now know the original Covid Shot is NOT working for immunity or contagiousness yet,
they keep pushing it hard, not admitting reality.
What do you consider not working? The COVID vaccines reduce the risk of infection (5x), hospitalization (>10x) and death (>10x) – https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm
6.) Natural immunity of those who have had Covid is being ignored. Why?
What source shows natural immunity is more effective than vaccinations?
7.) There are many reported deaths and injuries from Covid Shots. Why are they ignored?
What source shows deaths and injuries linked to the COVID vaccines?
(2) Testimony is not facts. You have no data backing up these claims for vaccine injuries/deaths and no data analysis of anything you are claiming.
(3) You originally claimed “One and a half million persons have come over the southern border” but are no claiming we “don’t really know the number of illegals that have entered”. So which one is it? There is no mandate for everyone in the US to get a COVID vaccine so your argument doesn’t make any sense.
(4) Again, this is an opinion. To understand your opinion, it would be helpful for you to point to the laws in place that make this Executive Action illegal.
Hello Christian,
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
No offence intended: I think you know we could go back and forth for days and it won’t solve anything. We obviously get our information from different sources and we think, see, believe and interpret differently. This is not a new or unusual situation.
While it’s clear that we disagree on many points, I would not call your statements or beliefs, “illogical, unintelligible, and/or conspiratorial.” I Hope All the Best for You! Merry Christmas!
Dear vtbeliever,
I think we could go back and forth and not solve anything, but maybe come a bit closer. Appreciate you taking the time to chat.
Have a great whatever you celebrate. Talk to you soon?
…do you not understand how rates work? Your headline is intentionally misleading. Pure numbers are not an accurate representation because more people are vaxxed than unvaxxed. You even list the death rates per 10000 people and then ignore that they are across the board higher for unvaxxed. Talk about fake news and yellow journalism.
As Guy Page states, the headline is factually correct. That’s not indicative of “fake news”.