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Unlike Vermont, their legislators spend taxpayer money wisely
by Rob Roper
This question was posed to me the other day by a friend (I will paraphrase and omit the profanities): “How is it that New Hampshire, a state roughly the same geographic size of Vermont with about twice the population spends half the amount of taxpayer money that we do?”
Here are the actual numbers. New Hampshire’s population is about 1.4 million and Vermont’s is about 640,000, so we’re slightly less than half. Vermont’s current budget is $8.5 billion while New Hampshire’s is $3.1 billion, so we spend well over two and a half times – nearly triple — more. Naturally this means that, compared to Vermont, New Hampshire is in a state of total neglect. Children wandering the streets uneducated. The sick left to suffer and die. The poor abandoned hungry and unsheltered. Criminals terrorizing the citizenry…. Umm… no.
In fact, according to the National Alliance to End Homelessness, New Hampshire has 11.6 homeless people per 10,000 population while Vermont has 43 — nearly four times as many! There are a few possible explanations for this. One is our economic and social welfare policy makers are such inept doofuses that they’re driving more citizens into systemic poverty. Another is our policies are so out of whack “generous” that homeless people are flocking to Vermont to free ride on the backs of Vermont taxpayers. But since homeless advocates are adamant that the latter is not happening (yeah, sure), we’ll have to go with the doofus hypothesis for now. (It actually applies to both scenarios).
When it comes to educating children, Vermont, according to US News & World Report, ranks 11th for student outcomes. Pretty good! But New Hampshire ranks 4th. Do they spend more to get better outcomes than we do. Nope. New Hampshire spends twenty percent LESS at $19,633 per pupil compared to Vermont’s $24,666 – and these numbers are before the coming 14% property tax increase, new internet service tax and short-term rental tax fueling a $200 million plus K-12 spending increase for next year.
Healthcare? According to Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, Vermont comes in 9th for overall quality. Still, New Hampshire comes in 6th. Is New Hampshire paying more for that higher quality. No. Oh, no… MoneyGeek reports a New Hampshirite’s annual health insurance bill comes in $6072, or tenth lowest nationally. A Vermonter’s? (Scrolling down… scrolling down… scrolling down…) There we are! Number 47 at $10,236.
What it comes down to is “Return on Investment” (ROI), or in layman’s terms, bang for the taxpayer buck. WalletHub does an annual analysis for ROI on state spending and, low and behold, New Hampshire is number one. Their legislators spend wisely and to good effect. Vermont is (scrolling down… scrolling down… scrolling down…) 43rd. Sandwiched between New Jersey and Arkansas of all the appalling places to fine oneself. Our legislators it seems have a propensity to, rather than “invest’ our money as they would have us believe, something akin to piling it on the State House lawn and setting fire to it.
According the WalleHub analysis of New Hampshire,
The Granite State’s tax resources have had a good impact on crime prevention and the environment, as the state has the second-lowest crime rate and the second-lowest air pollution in the country. It has one of the best public school systems as well…. New Hampshire residents are doing very well for themselves, considering they’re paying out less money in taxes, and the state has some of the lowest unemployment and poverty rates in the country.
And they do this with no income tax, no sales tax, and the sixteenth lowest per capita state and local tax burden versus Vermont’s (scrolling down… scrolling down… scrolling down) forty-seventh. So, when you get your next property tax bill with its massive increase, and try to cover it with a paycheck suddenly made smaller by a new payroll tax, etcetera and so on, know that it doesn’t have to be this way.
Our politicians on the Left tell us Vermonters want more expensive government. No we don’t. We want cost-effective government. We might be willing to spend more if it meant getting better results, but that’s not happening. We’re paying a lot more for, quite frankly, really crappy service. The solution: stop electing doofuses who think your tax money is their ideological plaything, and start electing responsible adults who take seriously their responsibility according to the Vermont Constitution, Article 18, to apply a “firm adherence to… frugality.”
Rob Roper is a freelance writer who has been involved with Vermont politics and policy for over 20 years. This article reprinted with permission from Behind the Lines: Rob Roper on Vermont Politics, robertroper.substack.com
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Categories: Commentary, State Government
Part of the answer is they let us pick up the slack when it comes to people having to relocate to receive assistance. Another massive part is that they support their businesses, so that the money exists to be taxed in the first place to fill the coffers, unlike Vermont, which drives out the sources of tax revenue then whines about having no funds, raising taxes to self-destructively try to compensate.
Going to the extreme they have isn’t the answer for the unique cultural landscape of Vermont, but neither is remaining to the extreme Left.
Very good points. Even the roads seem better in New Hampshire. The roads I travel in New Hampshire seem pothole free. I wonder what they add to the pavement.
I’ve often thought that the frost must stop it’s eastward march at the Connecticut river.
There actually IS a reason for the difference in road conditions between the two states. I grew up with and later co owned a Stone/gravel crushing business and we crushed all over Vt and NH. The reason NH is called the “granite state” is because the predominant earth material is granite. Even gravel deposits are mostly granite. Granite is a cleaner more frost free material than Vt’s mixture of clay, etc. They simply have a better base material that is more stable for frost/thaw conditions in most areas and if road construction location has undesireable material, It’s a short drive to find good material.
There are no simple answers, and the situation we find ourselves in now didn’t happen overnight. Face it, this has been a slow motion 25 year train wreck. We didn’t address it then, it’s gotten worse every year, and it’s damn near impossible to address it now short of sweeping the decks clean and starting all over again. But is that going to happen? No.
Why? Stockholm Syndrome. We the captives accept what our captors the legislature do. Plain and simple. We only look out for ourselves. If it doesn’t yet affect us, well, let the people it does affect deal with it.
Put another way – You don’t have to be faster than the bear, just faster than at least one of your group that the bear is chasing.
But you know what? Eventually, you *will* be the slowest one in the group bear is chasing. You *will* be the low-hanging fruit. And then what?
My guess is you’ll wish you spoke up *now*. Yes, it will be a longer, more difficult fight. It took 25+ years to get here, so it might take 25+ years to get ourselves out. And that applies to our country as well as our state. Do something. Do anything. Do what you can. Support a balanced budget. Support term limits. Support whatever is important to not only you, but your fellow Vermonters. Engage people and talk to them. It all helps.
Or, keep thinking of yourself first. Just don’t come to me when the bear catches *you*!
My family member(s) tried it all, well, almost all. They served the public good, over the course of almost 25 years since they first relocated here, serving on a select board, serving on a planning commission, writing countless letters to the editor & editorials, organizing rallies, writing & getting petitions signed, volunteering for candidates, etc. all for nothing in the end.
As I’ve already written, in spite of the enemy being clearly identified at this point, so many even on conservative or GOP sites just like this – believe the problem are regrettably & shockingly & laughably (if wasn’t so sad) are:
1. – Women (yup)
2. – Anyone who can’t trace their lineage to Vt(?) thru 7 generations
3. – Animal lovers & the people who vie for humane treatment of all living creatures
Need proof? Watch and see as the haters on here descend and swiftly eviscerate & befoul each of those groups as though they somehow deserve no rights nor hold any Constitutional protections – while the haters themselves squeal like stuck pigs each and every time their own inalienable rights are breached and stomped on by the current insane gaggle of Vt lawmakers. The left’s plot to polarize only serves their purposes!
The enemies, the so-called left, are of course, Communists. Avowed Communists who refer to themselves as progressives or democrat-socialists. Bernie paved the way. Socialists r Communists r Marxists & with their reign comes brutality, murder, and insanity via their polarizing psychological warfare to aid in the overtake and the occupation. Babies and the elderly and the ill are already having their lives snuffed out in hospitals in Vt. What more evidence than that does one require? They r here. They r in control.
In the end my extended family members decided – like a number of my family’s friends and neighbors – they didn’t need to stay and fight for a state where they were grotesquely considered part of the problem. Some people on here won’t ever recognize or want to admit that what they are experiencing is a Communist takeover until Vt Digger is guilelessly renamed Vt Pravda and they are being arrested for attending their grandchild’s baptism. It’s easier to blame women or animal-lovers I suppose. Easier and safer. But not very savvy or politically astute if your goals are to protect and preserve your homeland.
Many residents who established themselves here years ago and contributed to this state have recently left or r planning to leave, being replaced by criminals, gang members, and yet more Communists. The minority left behind who comprise the apathetic or those who can track their 7-year heritage will succumb. And it won’t be pretty. And the annals of history will only record yet another society destroyed by Communism with relative ease because the people allowed it. Through ignorance. Through unwarranted reproach of their fellow countrymen. Through hatred. Through sheer stupidity.
@Joan
I am sorry if you feel women are not welcome here. Could you give some examples where commenters blame women for our current predicament?
I know the conversations around the proposed changes to Vermont Fish and Wildlife got heated and gender politics did intrude in that debate. But that was an understandable reaction to the extremely disrespectful behavior of one commenter towards men.
Well actually it’s not that difficult. The problem is we are not getting wisdom, and we are certainly not getting wisdom from a good source, wikipedia and google are not timeless by any stretch of the imagination.
Here is what happened in a poor country called El Salvador, they had the highest murder rate per capita in the entire world. Through grace and appealing to who can deliver peace to the country, it happened, just as it has in years past with the United States. They are now the safest country in the Western Hemisphere 3 years later.
Fascinating interview.
https://choiceclips.whatfinger.com/2024/06/06/tucker-president-bukele-saved-el-salvador-he-may-save-the-world/
TGBTG
The problems Vermont is facing with economy, crime, vagrancy, gang activity, poor road conditions and inappropriate use of public assistance etc could all be repaired in ONE ELECTION CYCLE. Just STOP voting for democrats and progressives and end the nightmare.
The thing I keep hearing people on all sides say is: “But we have to do SOMETHING.”
That mentality, assuming that something must, or even CAN, be done as a silver-bullet solution to our problems, be they climate, housing, taxes, discrimination, or drugs: This has led to many ideologically-motivated actions with equal-or-greater overcorrection each time. Realpolitik really needs to be cultivated, not polarized policies.
Bingo! Doing “something”, is the responsibility of “We the People”. The government can never do “something”, it can only rearrange the “somethings” that the people are allowed to do, which comes at a great cost of disorder and destruction.
As one of the original big government hacks Reagan said best, ” The Government is not the solution to the problem, Government IS the problem.”
Actually, government IS the solution. Government policies accentuate the adage of the cure being worse than the disease. How can we help the government solve our problems? By eliminating most of the superfluous aspects of the government.
The real problem is that ‘government’ has a survival instinct. It, and the people in it, will do whatever is required to ensure their survival. And the way they do that is to create more and more problems that they disingenuously claim they can resolve on our behalf.
We seem to have three choices. We can vote them out of office. We can outsmart them as they bankrupt themselves. Or we can continue to acquiesce to slavery.
It costs a lot of money to care for adults who are perfectly capable of working who elect not to.
30+ years of no-strings-attached welfare has proved to be horrible public policy
Many great points and comparisons, however there is some factually inaccurate and misleading information regarding the comparison of budget amounts. New Hampshire’s FY24 budget cited as $3.1 billion is for its General Fund only (see https://www.nasbo.org/mainsite/resources/proposed-enacted-budgets/newhampshire-budget ). So, comparing this amount to Vermont’s $8.5 billion ALL FUNDS budget is not apples to apples. Vermont’s FY24 budget for General Fund only is $2.4 billion. So, VT’s General Fund budget is actually less than that NH’s (although it is still higher per capita, of course).
New Hampshire enacts its budget based on the biennium rather than the fiscal year. I did not find a discrete figure for NH all funds budget, but for FY24-25 combined it is $15.2 billion. So- the figure to compare to VT’s $8.5 billion is probably something around $7.5 million. Note, however this is still not really an “apples to apples” comparison, since NH does a lot more revenue collection and expenditure on a municipal basis, as opposed to having most all of it run through the state budget as in VT. For example, VT’s State Education Fund (which is part of VT’s $8.5 billion budget) funds all public schools statewide, whereas in NH the municipal budgets provide primary funding for local schools, then there is an additional amount of state aid on top. You only see the State aid portion in NH’s state budget, not the municipal funding which is the majority of Ed funding. Note that the state aid to local school districts is $2.6 billion for FY24 and FY25 combined. So- for a more apples to apples comparison of “all funds” state budgets, education should be backed out. VT’s $8.5B all funds less $2.1B Ed Fund = $6.4B. Compare this to NH $7.5B less $1.3B = $6.2B.
So . . it could be said that VT has roughly the same size state government budget as NH, despite having half the population. Which is still a pretty compelling statistic.
Thanks for the clarifying information and data. I found the author’s numbers and assertions very hard to believe. I admit, I started reading with a bit of a bias, I’ve read a number of his articles before.
An apples to apples comparison is not even required to assert Ropers’ point- and yours.
The glaring point is Vermont’s marxist government requires twice the tax burden of it’s neighbor, New Hampshire. If spending were equal per capita, that’s between 3 and 5 Billion dollars annually that Vermont need not collect.
Care to dispute that Vermont has the third highest tax burden of the 50 states?
or that Vermont will become #2 shortly, outpacing NY?
We can discuss grift, graft and campaign finance later.
wish we could stop calling our politicians stupid (“ inept doofuses”). They are extremely smart and efficient at what they do and what they do is grift.
Their job is two-fold. Maximize cash inflows -from both the Federal Government and from taxpayers – and use that cash to pay off your friends. During the pandemic the state government got flooded with federal money. They used that money to fund their friends through direct hiring and by funding the non-profits their friends run. This years obscene tax increases is because our politicians decided to keep their $8+bn budget but to get Vermont taxpayers to fund it. They use the old line “but think of the children” to stifle dissent.
Indeed, they know they can use our empathy to push almost any idea that they want. They can not only solve every social ill, but make our children perfect little emotionally adjusted automatons and control the weather too.
Behind the scenes there is no empathy. They have set up incentive arrangements aimed at worsening the very things they claim to solve..
When have we heard any politician ask about the effectiveness of the Howard Center’s operations? It seems we get more drug addicts every year. But that’s OK because the Howard Center can claim even more money to “solve” the problem.
Why, after years of pushing “renewables” are we still getting weather? That one is a total fraud.
When does funding for “affordable” housing actually reduce homelessness? It doesn’t. It opens up otherwise productive land to developers to build houses that are bought for speculation. It doesn’t solve the homeless problem, it worsens it.
How many social workers are there in Vermont? How effective have they been? We have a whole department of social workers in Montpellier, but we are told we need even more. So we are embedding them into schools and Police departments.
The “mental health” crisis is another grift, designed to use taxpayer money to drug our kids with energy draining meds. Again, more mental illness means more money for mental health “professionals”
They need to be voted out. They are not stupid. They are extremely dangerous.
“They are not stupid. They are extremely dangerous.” Most are both, which is the worst possible combination. Though I agree with you there are some very smart grifters pulling the strings. Some are elected, but most on the sidelines using the useful idiots as tools for their own benefit.
Perhaps we should start to identify those ‘pulling the strings’, especially those ‘on the sidelines’.
Rob, your former colleague, John McClaughry, did so in his 2021 commentary, A Capitalist Success Story, about Board President, Duane Peterson, and Clean Energy Program Director, James Moore , at the Vermont Public Interest Research Group (VPIRG) when, back in 2009, VPIRG raised $20 million and devoted about half of that to persuading politicians and legislators to rig a bunch of special deals to create a lucrative market for start-up solar companies.
“The 2010 election brought into office Gov. Peter Shumlin, previously known as “the Senator from VPIRG”. He was an enthusiastic anti-nuclear crusader and climate alarmist who warned of “an unspeakably horrid future” for our grandchildren if Vermonters failed to wage all-out war against the menace of climate change. With Gov. Shumlin leading a large Democratic-majority legislature for what proved to be six years, it was clear that much if not all of VPIRG’s ambitious climate program would become law.”
As John explained, Peterson and Moore started the SunCommon solar company in 2012. Peterson actually remained on the VPIRG Board until 2018. Meanwhile, SunCommon grew revenues to over $30 Million in 2020, enabling Peterson and Moore to sell the business privately in 2021 to Williston-based iSun for $40 Million.
Ironically, we now know that our “unspeakably horrid future” has little to do with CO2 reduction and more to do with “some very smart grifters pulling the strings… using… the useful idiots” we continue to elect to the legislature.
Well said, very well said VT Rocks!
This is of the government for the government in action.
This is politicians giving free hand outs for votes, the reason our founding fathers abhorred democracy and knew it would come crashing down and why they gave us a republic.
They are supposed to protect the laws that protect the people from corruption, from despotic governments. We have to be wiser than snakes and more innocent than doves in order to make these changes.
Here is an example of how change can come if you look in the right places….
https://choiceclips.whatfinger.com/2024/06/06/tucker-president-bukele-saved-el-salvador-he-may-save-the-world/
terrible title to the story but it is good.
TGBTG
Thank you Rob for explaining the cause of Vermonters frustrations. Vermont residents are starting to wake up and participate in self-governance like E. Brown for example. Vermonters need to research candidates and actively work to elect servants who “Get Real “ about serving instead of using coercion on their subjects. Change happens; the direction is up to each of us.
How about a follow-up article about HOW New Hampshire manages to do it better, and suggestions about how we can do better, other than, “elect responsible adults”. And, I hope that someday the author realizes that nasty name-calling and demonizing everyone who’s not a republican does nothing to help the situation.
VtRocks – Sorry, the remainder of our family (my husband’s family has been here for generations) doesn’t see it your way at all. Why don’t you yourself go back and review what my stepmother went through and the disgusting remarks she was subjected to that the publisher did nothing to dissuade and still doesn’t to this day, perpetrated not only under that topic but others as well. Then, after that, why not use actual supposed quotes that she supposedly used to support your claim that she was the aggressor against men?! A married senior with three sons who didn’t appreciate it either.
Please provide precise dates, article, and quotes so that your accusations can be verified. In the meanwhile, you’re losing dozens (that I alone know of) of residents in their area who were law-abiding, involved in promoting good governance and even were long-term business owners who brought in revenue to this state because you think anti-trappers (the majority of the entire US population by far) are the threat to democracy(?) instead of Communists & Marxists??? Yes, this is precisely why good Vt residents are leaving. They will be better appreciated and respected in NH – and be paying way less in taxes at the same time. Vt’s loss, NH’s gain. Unfortunately for right now I’m in a position where I must stay in a state where such backward beliefs are sustained generation after generation which is exactly why Vt. was rife for Communism to take hold. It’s not women or animal-lovers or tourists or average Americans from states like Connecticut or elsewhere, and it sure isn’t outspoken seniors who were political activists in their town. It’s Communists brought to you by this state’s beloved Bernie who will inevitably win re-election again. PETA (or whoever, I don’t remember) didn’t lose anything here. You all did – good people replaced by more hoodlums. Vermont isn’t making any comeback. No matter how much hating and hunting anyone here does. You’re chasing ghosts.
After all the grief you’ve given me, why don’t you use your real name Kathy? Did you finally violate the terms enough times or did a family member read your comments and was horrified?
Hi “Joan”,
Looks like New Hampshire allows trapping too. Maybe when you move there you can fix that.
https://www.wildlife.nh.gov/hunting-nh/trapping
Kathleen still can’t figure out the Reply button. Or is it Joan, and Kathleen was the sock puppet? And who is Joan Supple, as also posted in a previous reply? In any case, the long-standing history of weird accusations and personal invective concerning “real names,” seem like a real problem, and suggest either simple disruptive trolling, or an absolutely impressive lack of self-awareness.
@sLowry
“Joan’s” poor step mom suffered unbearable misogyny when people dared to disagree with her.
@VtRocks There’s a lot of projection and persecution complex, in addition to a real blindness to self-contradiction, especially when it comes to personal provocation. I don’t think it’s just trolling.
SLowry
“Joan” is a single issue “conservative” who opposes one strand of conservative philosophy but fully believes that she – and she alone – gets to decide what others can do. In short, she is NOT conservative. She is a wannabe tyrant
Her tactics work in live meetings where contemporaneous fact checking is difficult and “playing to the audience” is easier. They are especially effective when she can call others names but her opponents are constrained from responding by the norms of decorum.
It is typical lefty nonsense. She is here to derail and insult.
@VtRocks The irony being the recent focus on not being divisive, in order to “fight communism,” especially in concert with the victim-based feminism and constant personal invective, which is basically how the current communist cultural revolution works in a nutshell.
That should read “ one single issue conservative who opposes one strand of liberal philosophy….”
SLowry
I am grateful you’re here. You are exactly right. Her single issue is “hunting and trapping” -for now. She’s likely still furious and fuming that her ad-hominem nonsense was called out.
Likewise. I was happy to ignore “Kathleen,” after a bunch of this stuff, but then she had to go and do “Joan.” So now I’m just going to keep calling it out.
The population of New Hampshire is 1.395 million (2022) compared to Vermont at roughly 645,000. Our neighbor to the East has much more business, tourism, ocean front, and far less taxation without representation. Yesterday, I watched a popular national podcaster completely drag Vermont through the coals. I see many financial reporting of statistics that clearly show Vermont is swirling the bowl. If it wasn’t for the deep rooted corruption and woeful ignorance of corruption, Vermont might not be the laughing stock of the nation. Yet, it appears our fate is sealed by the real numbers and the real headlines that most are too haughty and prideful to address or too ignorant to know facts over fiction.
Chris: Use your Reply icon like a man. Or whatever. Try contacting Mr. Page for any questions you demand answers to I suggest. Women lap you. All the time. Concession is all you can give.
Try using your real name coward
Schools out. Chris is outed. He exited the school bus for the dog days of summer. Which school is that again?
Lol. See? You really ARE bad @ this………”Chris”! Try researching the Dunlaps in VT – been here longer than your hatch date.
Why would I waste my time? It’s just another attempt at you moving the goalposts and it doesn’t matter because YOU are a transplant, the kind that makes us locals glad we weren’t born on third base. So I know you won’t answer my question because you can’t. Sorry someone yelled at your stepmom 40 years ago, all of your arguments are now valid because of it
VtRocks: ALL state allow it. New Flash. And all states r in the process of changing it. Look at your neighbor over in NY….tons of pending legislation, tho i’m not personally involved as none of the Dunlap males partake (much like the majority of Vt’ers don’t either).
But thanks tho for support for my statements of fact concerning the haters & misogyny on here. You prove it. How about more?
NH doesn’t just allow trapping allows. It provides education materials to help people trap a wide variety of animals.
How can it me “hate and misogyny” to point that out?
If your poor, dejected step-mother is moving out of state we would miss her. We would bear the loss though, because I imagine the pigeons, rats, woodchucks and skunks of NH would celebrate her arrival.
Still waiting on all that evidentiary material from past posts that men? were being disrespected by my stepmother. Making such a statement & then providing no such proof is in itself misogynistic. On the other hand, she gave proof of men involved in doing such to her time & again in many posts that we remember personally which r still easily located by going back thru VDC archives.
And I stated NY State in my post above – not NH. NYS has trapping restrictive legislation pending, I have no idea about NH. But in the end, most citizens of all states do not trap & that’s the reality. Whether you continue to offer classes or not. Most youngsters have little interest in general in killing animals. Just like in Vt, father/daughter hunting day never was successful. Most females do not hunt & neither do most men for that matter. Statistics bear that out.
Most men don’t fly planes. Most men don’t become doctors. Should we ban those things too?
If your poor step-mother suffered misogyny “time and again”, it should be easy to provide proof. I asked first since you started this attempt at derailing.
No maxist communists in NH.