“This is what our state has become”
by Pam Baker
Who would you call if your neighbor began firing his handgun at your house on a bright and sunny morning in January?
Well, the home closest to us (about 400 ft from ours), was being fired upon by their neighbor that backs their place. This person cohabitates with the daughter of my neighbor. He is the father of one of the small children in this home. He doesn’t have a job and among other things, he has a long history with difficulty with law enforcement. He hasn’t spent any time behind bars, but his name and his family name are well known to the local LEO’s. I am purposefully leaving out names as this is not my story to tell but the family encouraged me to write the story and they have approved it. So here goes.
One morning just over a week ago, this man had the second episode of chaotic and aggressive behavior that week. He was angry at my neighbor for things a father would normally say to the man who sponges off his daughter.
So, the man got into a fight with the girlfriend, the daughter, who promptly gathered up the small children and drove the quarter of a mile around to her father’s home, my neighbor. Whereupon the out-of-control man stood on the back deck of his girlfriend’s home and began firing his handgun at the home of his girlfriend’s father, which is where his girlfriend and his child had just retreated to, in order to be safe. He fired an unknown number of rounds at the home, which is about 200 ft distance.
At this point, another member of my neighbor’s household called 911 and eventually was redirected to the Vermont State Police, who has the contract for our town, and was told no one was coming to respond because “he was just blowing off steam” and “we are NOT getting in a firefight with blank blank.” “You are safe, and no one is hurt so we aren’t coming.”
The caller pleaded with the dispatcher to no avail. The next business day, the family, our immediate neighbors, attempted to get an order of protection, which was denied by a judge. The daughter/girlfriend vacillates between wanting him removed and sticking up for him, a textbook case of someone in the clutches of domestic violence. Child Protection Services were called, and they declined to get involved.
I can’t make up this nonsense. I have purposefully left out details which would provide no meaningful information, to protect the situation.
This is what our state has become… our world has become. No one is coming to save you. You must save yourself. We are inches away from a world where the Rule of Law is nonexistent. I do not say this as gossip or hyperbole, but as a lesson. I urge you to take some qualified self-defense classes with handguns that includes scenarios, and also includes the laws in your state, so that you can hone your judgment. Because I learned a great deal on Saturday in one such class. What you think you know, you don’t.
Be Safe.
The author is a Vermonter and frequent VDC commentary writer and commenter.
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Categories: Commentary
And the progressives/Dems want MORE gun laws!!!!! Wait until it happens to them because it is happening to progressives all over this once great country.
Thank you for commenting Ms. Web.
I concur. The words of Martin Niemöller come to mind….
… when they came for me, no one was left.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
In defense of the home… If shots were fired these can easily be verified forensically and the sound evidence corroborated by neighbors within hearing distance corroborates these also. So next time don’t wait for police but rather fire back with a rifle and let God sort out the details. If you call and tell them you are returning fire soon, THEY WILL RESPOND!!! Just saying…
Mr. Floyd,
Thank you so much for commenting. I can and will corroborate shots fired should I get the chance. I thought it odd to hear gunfire on a weekday in the middle of the day.
I do believe you are correct, if my neighbor, who also has been a constable and a LEO, were to have returned fire, the State Police would have responded. And very likely, my neighbor would be facing charges.
https://reason.com/volokh/2020/12/21/duty-to-retreat-35-states-vs-stand-your-ground-15-states/
We aren’t quite at WROL situation… yet.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
“Duty to retreat” is a statutory code provision, a contrivance of the legislature that, compared to your natural, god given rights is known as inferior law. Wherever any act of the legislature is repugnant to your god given rights, it is automatically, NULL & VOID and of no force or effect in law, conferring no authority to anyone to act against you.
Threaten my family like that, I will put you down and I don’t give a dam what my public servants have to say about it, including those with costumes and two digit i.q.’s.
Calling 911 or the STATE imperial guard was mistake one. Protect your family yourself and then call the coroner to come collect the waste. If you can’t protect your own family and really need help and can’t rely on your neighbors, call the county Sheriff, it’s his job. If he’s unwilling to do it, remove him for Breach of the Public Trust.
To “Rabble Rouser”
Thank you for your comment. We do not have a “duty to retreat” requirement in this state… yet.
And for certain, if my neighbor had returned fire, he would be the one in jail and/or facing charges at this time. He is a former LEO and town constable and is highly aware of the nuances of this situation. He is a well respected member of our community.
It has been suggested to them to notify the Sheriff. At this time I do not know the status of that suggestion. Thank you again.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
There was a time when after the first shot, there would be an answer shot fired off that would end the matter right then and there. Better known as the good old days when people minded and tended to their business in peace and safety for that very reason. Actions had significant real consequences – not so much anymore.
Ms. Casey, I feel certain those days are fast returning… whether we are ready for it or not.
In my mind, at the very least, DCF should have gotten involved. And they did not.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
Those days can’t return – the mindset certainly can though. The State implemented DCF or a mental health worker to respond with the police to these domestic dust-ups. What happened? No one responded. Shocker! Not. Thank God no one was killed. Let this be a lesson to all readers – your taxes pay for public safety – breach of contract or pure willfull indifference to you, your family, and your community?
Best article I have read on VDC. The tools are out there. Use them for your own safety. Pam is right. There is NO ONE coming to help you! I repeat. There is NO ONE coming to help you! She is also right about about the “Rule of Law” is nonexistent.
Thank you kindly, Mr. Hall.
Sadly, there is a dearth of safety classes or organizations here in Vermont to aid in handgun law and safety for the average citizen. If anyone knows of one, please do post it. I have contacted one in South Royalton, but they haven’t responded nor posted any classes since May 2023 and likely are out of business.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
Vermont Women’s Shooting Association holds classes in the summer and private lessons as long as it is not too cold out. They are sponsored by VSRPA. They also have a facebook page that is not very active. A great group of women, who value safety above all else are NRA cert instructors. Email Marsha at vtwomentrainingwomentoshoot@gmail.com
Thank you so much “NYOB”. I will look into that as soon as I am able.
I also need to find something that includes my husband. So any and all suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Thank you for commenting.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
here come the judge/// many pills for the right situation///
They would have come if you fired back… Then you would have been in jail, because that’s the way it works now.
Mr. Brian,
Agree. That is the way it works now.
Thank you for commenting.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
This is the problem in Vermont no one wants to help themselves.
I should think one well placed round would have solved the problem.
Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 I should think.
To “Red”:
While in general, I agree that there are few who want to help themselves, this family is highly self-sufficient and a tightknit family. Or were. The father is exceedingly aware of his responsibilities and the steps that need to be taken or not taken to protect himself and his family. It’s not as simple as 12 men vs 6 men. If it had devolved to that level, my neighbor, a wise and experienced gentleman, would have ensured the safety of his family over his daughter’s boyfriend. I guarantee that.
It hadn’t risen to that level, but the point of the piece is that A. law enforcement did not respond to shots fired and children involved. B. A judge refused to sign a letter of protection. And C. DCF refused to get involved. Those are astounding events.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
The problem here is in the upside down world we live in, unlike the criminals who roam free, if you defend your self the law will be on you like a dog on bone and will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law and probably beyond.
Mr. Paul,
You sir are absolutely correct. Dog on a bone indeed.
Thank you for commenting.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
It was a complete & total lack of civic duty for the police to refuse to respond to this call and it directly endangered the very lives of the public, to wit legal action should be immediately undertaken against the state and the individual dispatcher/officers involved. This MUST be addressed IMMEDIATELY! Wake up, Vermonters!
That being said, the employees involved are very likely following the marching orders of this lawless legislature who have made it perfectly clear through deeds, policy, and words that they both protect predatory behaviors and that an anarchical, chaotic society is what they intentionally are establishing in order to eventually gain complete & total control over the citizenry.
Communism. Pure, simple, and intrinsically evil.
John Birch, is that you?
Ms. Gaffney, I wrote you a reply and thanked you for commenting… and it doesn’t appear to have made it on to the comment section. My apologies. I am sure it was operator error.
I sadly, do not remember what I wrote… but I do know the family is continuing to pursue legal action. And I just heard that they are taking some of the suggestions on this comment section and will be following up on them as well. So “thank you” from them.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
Sounds good Pam. The people of VT must learn that we need to take action to stop this socio/cultural incursion from radicals which have become increasingly dangerous and deadly. The fact that shots were being randomly fired into an occupied home and the police stated they refused to respond is outrageous and cannot be tolerated by the public whom the police are obligated to protect and serve at all times. Thank God no one was killed under these circumstances, and I wish your neighbors the best in pursuing their claim of action. They are deserved of “reparations.”
Cops are thin on the ground in Vermont.
There’s a reason for that.
It’s one of the worst jobs in Vermont.
Either the RWNJ want to hang’em high
Or the progressives want to run them out of their jobs.
Remember VDC readers. Don’t feed the trolls and the Maggot.
the maggot was 45
Mr. Hall,
I appreciate your comments and support. It is imperative that we do not support or encourage poor behavior here. What we do here in many ways, large and small, is how we as a people behave in the “real world” with our living and breathing neighbors and family. While I am no paragon of virtue, I do encourage everyone and remind myself, that responding isn’t always a helpful or productive endeavor. Thank you for the reminder.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
Being a woman employee at Fox is like being a mouse at a rattlesnake convention.
So now we have Fox News saying only white straight people should serve in the military and a OANN saying football is a conspiracy to distract from the worship of Jesus , and ostensibly, Trump. This is what passes for news on the right .
Seems like a call or an email to the Public Safety Commissioner is in order
You might get an apology. What you will not get, even after paying the requisite fees, are copies of the 911 phone call where the hapless dispatcher says “I’m not getting a trooper out of bed for an active, in your house break-in. They’ll be long gone before he gets there.” Signed, Voice of Experience and former Vermonter
Ms. Lorraine,
I suspect you are dead right. What a disgusting and sad world we live in.
Thank you for your comment.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
Thank you, Mr. Kelley. Both for commenting and for your suggestion. The family has read your comment and is actively looking into it. Much appreciated.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
I would contact the heads of the organizations that you contacted and raise holy hell,
I guess this is your tax dollars at work !!
Then again, you have progressives running everything and they hate the police,
so you’re kind of on your own by the sounds of things !!
This is pretty disheartening, just blowing off steam…………….
Mr. Henry (I do hope that is correct),
Thank you so much for your comment. It is disheartening. The family is pursuing most of the suggestions offered here and I have contemplated making my own complaint as well. Against the department’s lack of response.
Thank you again.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
@VDC if “billfromwhiteplains” is not a paid subscriber, he should be removed from VDC. He is a mere bot whose posts are seldom connected to the topic at hand and most make no sense.
Or at least consider a block feature so those of us with critical thinking skills aren’t subjected to his blather.
Pam,I’m serious as a heart attack here.
As an old security guy who has a background that has seen almost too much professionally I want to give you a heads up.
You wrote this to Id a problem with people you know, and who know you, that is domestic related.
Ask any L/E officer what the most dangerous part of their job is and they will likely reply that responding to domestic disorder is, as with the people involved, one just never knows what they will do, as they are often so enraged, and filled with passion, they can act without reason, and these sitcoms can quickly become deadly, and by you bringing their domestic issues, to the public, can easily make you a target.
I know you mean well but take my words to heart.
You can endanger yourself ,and those close to you, as crimes of passion, are named just that, for a reason.
Tread carefully, and raise the issue thoughtfully, without broadcasting personal details, or you may become the target.
Mr. Olenick,
I take your comment with the spirit in which you intend and had a long discussion with the family regarding this. I am aware, as is my own family, of the ramifications not only to us, but to our community. We felt the bigger issue is that we are “on our own”. But that doesn’t give us license to be vigilantes. We must be very careful on all fronts. We don’t expect this to end well.
And I am highly aware that the most dangerous scenarios for LEO’s are domestic disturbances. So is the family as the neighbor, the father, is a former town constable and LEO himself. He is a well-respected member of our community. His judgement is usually impeccable.
I am more concerned about those young children to be quite honest. The others involved are adults and can make their own decisions. The children are quite literally caught in the crossfire.
And DCF declines to intervene at this time.
Good.As long as you are aware.
I’m from a family that had a member slain in the Line of Duty,not domestic,shot down by bad guys, but just wanted to give you a heads up, and hadno intent to tell you how to live your life.
Good luck on this.
I greatly appreciate your input Mr. Olenick. I am so sorry for your loss.
I have a call scheduled tomorrow to speak with the Captain of the State Police Barracks regarding a complaint I filed. I think I will update the readers next week on the status. I just have questions and hoping he can answer. But we shall see.
This is not occurring just in our little state. Nor is it really new. However, the duty to protect is just not justifiable in the world we live in. Not when a LEO takes the chance of losing their life or their entire world (job, family, home etc.) by attempting to serve and protect. This is just a symptom of a very diseased society.
May God have mercy on us all.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
Wow, I’m gone for five days on vacation and I come back to Nazi commentators, Pam writing fiction and an awful troll that has no understanding of nuance. Sorry I left for a few days.
Hoping you don’t have an errant bullet shot off next to you. I experienced it years ago when a person stopped in the middle of a main street and popped off a couple rounds at the apartment building next door. The perp was caught. If that makes me a Nazi, then I guess that makes you prideful and superior, for some inexplicable reason.
Ms. Casey,
It was nice for about a week wasn’t it? The absence of stuporific nonsense was a great vacation for us, no?
I’ve done some follow up research and discovered quite a bit about our law enforcement or lack thereof. See my comment to Mr. Dyer below. I think this begs another op ed/letter to the editor piece in the near future.
But as others have stated, it’s best not to feed the cockroaches. They just breed more as evidenced by a recent uptick in their numbers here. :Q
I am fine people calling me names in a sophmoric, illogical, knee-jerk fasion. I can fling mud, facts or philosophy with the best or worst in our society. We all get triggered these days, by design. Obviously, some more than others and I pray for them too.
wow is qann back in the news again///
https://www.youtube.com/@ActiveSelfProtection/videos
Watch about 100hours of ASP, and maybe some “asp extras”. Good for getting you to memorize your draw to first shot go signals and other cool stuff.
Practice, practice, practice.
These idiots that think they can use a gun as a noise maker to release their frustrations are shameful. Gives all gun owners a bad name, and is quite dangerous.
Glad no one was hurt. Absolutely never rely on the police/government for anything, and never call the police unless you are doing it to outsource your violence.
Relationships like these, usually both parties are the abusers. So probably a match made in heaven unfortunately.
To “VermontVermonter”:
Thank you so much for commenting. I will look into those videos and appreciate your resource recommendations.
Yes, the individual in question is in need of serious interventions. I won’t go into what I believe the situation stems from and how it should be handled as I am an outsider.
My biggest concern is the children and the lack of response from agencies that are supposed to and have historically been there for law abiding citizens.
Clearly we have moved away from that paradigm. That was the point of my piece. And that we should do just as you suggest, learn and practice.
Appreciate your time and input.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
As bad as this sounds, it’s NOTHING compared to the damage DCF will do. Thank God they didn’t “help”.
I understand, but there are family members ready and waiting to take the children, they just need the backing of the legal system to do so until the young man in question is removed from the situation. DCF would have, does have the power to do that almost instantaneously.
Thank you again,
Pam Baker
with the price of ammo try not to waste it/// making it harder for a poor person to buy it///
VSP dispatchers have too much discretion; try a 911 hang up?
Mr. Dyer,
As evidenced by the situation, they appear to, don’t they?! I’ve heard a lot of law enforcement and related personnel state that they don’t have a duty to protect life.
According to Findlaw.com, “In the 1981 case Warren v. District of Columbia, the D.C. Court of Appeals held that police have a general “public duty,” but that “no specific legal duty exists” unless there is a special relationship between an officer and an individual, such as a person in custody.”
So, there you have it. That old “Protect and Serve” printed on the side of many police cruisers is just Hollywood.
But there is more. The SCOTUS 1989 decision in “DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, the justices ruled that a social services department had no duty to protect a young boy from his abusive father. In 2005’s Castle Rock v. Gonzales, a woman sued the police for failing to protect her from her husband after he violated a restraining order and abducted and killed their three children. Justices said the police had no such duty.”
That is contrary to what I was taught and led to believe for the last 60 odd years. Amazing what you learn, no?
So, not only do LEO’s have no duty to protect, but they also aren’t coming. Heaven forbid you protect yourself, and then they’ll be on YOU like a duck on a bug. If that doesn’t perfectly exemplify the bizarro world we live in, nothing does.
That is why my neighbor was so circumspect and measured in his response. He knew the odds were against him. And because of his background he knew what he was up against. That young man best hope a WROL situation doesn’t happen or his chances of survival drop precipitously.
Thank you for commenting. I appreciate your perspective.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
As I understand the facts, your neighbor is not a “household member” of the shooter and therefore probably would be ineligible for a relief from abuse order meant to protect victims of domestic abuse under Title 15. So, I presume the neighbor sought an “order against stalking” under Title 12, which also might not apply depending on all the facts. If you know, did your neighbor seek the advice of a Vermont lawyer? If not, he should do so.
True Vermont story: A man spoke to a lawyer and said “I want to sue the State of Vermont” The lawyer replied “stand in line, everyone is and wants to sue the State of Vermont.” The Vermont Statutes Annotated are about as legitmate as the lawmakers (breakers?) who drafted them in the first place. Makes me wonder why bother swearing an oath – an oath to do what and protect who?
Pam, I strongly maintain that your neighbors need to seek the consult of an attorney who specializes in law enforcement matters and who has a track record of representing persons who are not law enforcement officers/agents themselves, so as to prevent any conflict of interest.
For laypersons to attempt to decipher Supreme Court decisions ourselves based upon what we might garner from the internet or even reading a decision ourselves is unreliable. Many of the quotes you provide are taken out of context or are very partial snippets of very detailed decisions.
As an example, apparently based upon another site – The one decision stated that the police do not have an obligation to protect specific individuals, but it continued by affirming that L.E.O.’s DO have an obligation & duty to protect the public. In conclusion, as a community, the police must protect the members thereof.
One of those decisions was also specifically related to compensatory damages and the Court decided in one particular circumstance that compensation wasn’t due, not that the police lacked the aforementioned duty to protect the people involved.
The police in VT and almost everywhere else take a sworn oath to protect the safety and the lives of members of the public & the community. Now, whether your neighbors are entitled to any compensatory damages remains to be seen as no one was injured, however, this matter MUST be officially reported and recorded in writing, and your neighbors should indeed consult a legal professional.
Ms Gaffney,
They have indeed been consulting with an attorney this week. In addition to a variety of other avenues of approach.
Thank you for your concern and input. Much appreciated.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
Mr. Kelly,
You are correct, they were seeking a protection order under title 12 I believe. Although I am not sure if they are still pursuing this or not.
They are working with legal professionals here in Vermont.
Thank you so much for your concern and input.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
I wish the neighbors best of luck and will say a prayer over the situation. The problem in Vermont – very easy to decipher – the court system is backlogged and understaffed (thanks to COVID-19 perpe-traitors) and most of the lawyers are all in the big club – lunch and banquets with fellow Bar members, judges, and such. The main focus is billable hours and if on a contingency basis, the best bet is mediation may resolve it amicibly. Most Vermonters can’t afford a fight in civil or criminal court and the Judiciary knows that – that’s why they prolong and defer cases into years long slug-fests. Victim advocates have so many victims they can’t manage the caseloads or provide proper attention, let alone compensation. We plainly see criminals are treated with more respect and concern than victims. I hate to deliver the black pills – the facts and the headlines tell the story quite clearly. There is no justice in Vermont currently and we all know who is responsible for that fact.
The dispatcher should be fired, the state police sued.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out Mr. Vitolanese. (I hope I got that correct). Thank you so much for your comment.
Respectfully,
Pam Baker
If this act was carried out as described someone high up in the VSP needs to be notified. All 911 calls are logged and recorded so verifying this shouldn’t be a problem. Refusing to send an officer to a call where a person is firing a gun in the direction of people knowingly or otherwise sounds like a colossal failure on behalf of the police. Sometimes the boss doesn’t know about bad decision making until someone lets them know.