Town Hall on Energy

Vermonters for Vermont Town Hall – an echo chamber of misinformation
I attended an energy town hall in Colchester sponsored by Vermonters for Vermont, Greg Thayer. The panel was made up of politicians and lobbyists. The exception being Julie Moore the VT ANR secretary. She was the closest to a subject matter expert.
The meeting concluded with a discussion of how climate action may be stopped to keep Vermont affordable. The conclusion should have been how can we (inclusive, all) work to make renewable energy equitable and affordable saving money for Vermonters – and address climate action.
A lot of work went into assembling this town hall, but there was no fact checking or subject matter experts, so misinformation flowed freely. I have tried to correct this in the following.
Examples of the misinformation expressed at the meeting and the corrections:
-The cost of sustainable energy was brought up as being too expensive for Vermonters. A response was how homeowners installed solar power, and the solar has paid off and the energy (electricity) is now free for the life of the solar panels (50+ years likely, 30 guaranteed) and this includes an EV (so no gas cost). Compare this to fossil fuel prices that can vary widely from year to year, how is free energy too expensive for Vermonters? One response was that solar does not pay off w/o subsidies. Again wrong, it just does not pay off as fast and leaves out the trillions of fossil fuel subsidies – these should be stopped but we all know they will not be. The tariffs on solar panels from China (supplying much of the world with low cost solar) will affect this, a possible self-inflicted negative outcome. The comment was also made not everyone can put solar on their roof. Of course all cannot, the utilities such as GMP need to expand solar. We also need to approve Balcony Solar (or portable solar) that will be on the Vermont legislature Spring 2026 docket.
-EV batteries and solar panels will create a huge trash problem. Wrong also as these can first be repurposed (e.g. use car batteries as grid batteries) then 85% recycled. However, the recycling industry for these is nascent and needs to be developed.
-EV’s cannot go the long distances one wants to go, and one cannot stop for several hours to charge. Wrong on EV charge time, fast chargers are 20 minutes. And partially right on EV distance, but as I had previously said in the meeting, we need to target our infrastructure and policy on the coming EV’s, with 600+ mile ranges and 10-minute charge time. An EV is all about the battery, coupled with charging infrastructure.
-CO2 is necessary for life. This statement was to supposedly justify no limits on CO2, but it is the dose that makes the poison. Chromium and Copper are among many elements that are essential for life – but in higher does are toxic. Even arsenic may be essential for human life. I believe lead is the only toxin with no acceptable limit.
-More CO2 promotes great plant growth and will be good for the Sugaring industry. This is a hangover of a 1970’s fossil fuel campaign. A slight increase in CO2 can help promote some plants growth, but a limited effect. And the climate change that high CO2 concentrations bring with it is very detrimental to the Vermont Maple Sugaring industry, pushing sugaring north. Vermont may need to look into other maple species that will better tolerate the heat as the Vermont climate becomes non-supporting for Sugar Maples, pushing their growing zone north. The beloved Holsteins are also not heat tolerant.
-How solar is not a base level power source and fossil fuels are needed – or nuclear (gen 5 was not mentioned, modular was). Yes solar by itself is not sufficient but combined with wind and batteries is close to a total renewable solution (and tidal and geothermal). Add an improved grid for wider and efficient distribution and you may be there.
-The inability of the grid to support millions of EV’s and solar. To what extent the grid will not support such is debatable, but it is widely agreed the grid needs a significant upgrade. Yet the current administration has stopped grid improvements such as the $4.9 billion Grain Belt Express high-voltage transmission line and $1.2 billion for California’s hydrogen hub and other grid modernization efforts. The grid concerns have a solution; we just need to do it.
-Germanys economy has crashed due to the country moving to solar from nuclear. Not correct, but there are details and complications. Germany is the world’s third largest economy, but it has stagnated for several reasons. From an energy perspective, the problem has not been renewables but the high cost and volatility of fossil fuels. Germany is Europe’s largest energy exporter, and for obvious reasons the country (along with most of Europe) is moving off of Russian oil and natural gas as quickly as possible. My personal comment on this is if Germany (or any country) is developing new energy source, build where you want to go (renewables) not committing to 30+ year fossil fuel plants.
-Large diesel does not work as an EV. Correct, this area needs work. The coming generation of EV batteries may work, and hydrogen is a possibility but will require its own infrastructure. LNG, propane, biodiesel – are all fossil fuels made more presentable, a true renewable energy solution needs to be developed for large diesel.
-Confusing weather and climate, and how Vermont used to be covered by ice (glaciers) and how volcanoes have affected the climate – so why do anything since climate changes? The first response is to read Plows, Plagues and Petroleum by William Ruddiman. The second is yes climate does vary, but we are now in an age of anthropogenic change and we are changing the climate at a very fast rate. We (humans) are making this planet uninhabitable for our grandchildren, very possibly our children. If that is the legacy one wants to leave, then keep burning that coal.
-Geoengineering was mentioned as a solution but not discussed. This is good as such would never work but make things worse, and be the death throws of a livable planet. I base this statement on the dramatic failure of animal translocations which is much simpler, and we are still learning how to do it correctly. E.g. 1859 translocation of rabbits to Australia, 1851 sparrows to the U.S., 1946 Beavers got to Tierra del Fuego. Now geoengineering is proposed, and to the uninitiated sounds great at first. With geoengineering there will be oops that did not work as expected, can we start over? No.
It is irresponsible for panel members to freely fabricate grossly inaccurate responses which support some political or business position. This is wrong, the panel members should be held accountable.
Lastly, read Bill McKibben’s latest book “Here Comes the Sun”. If you’ve read this far you deserve this treat.

2 replies »

GREGORY THAYER, MBA says:

November 17, 2025 at 12:55 pm

Tomorrow, Tuesday, 18 November 2025 at 6pm in Colchester at the Meeting House at 898 Main St. our “Townhall on Energy.” Come join us and invite your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers and others to join us.

Come listen to and ask questions to the policy makers in Montpelier about the G.W.S.A., Carbon Tax, Home Heat Standard, NuclearPower, California Fuel Standards, Alternative Energy Sources, and the 3 Acre Rule and much more…

We have a great panel of experts for you. For more information contact us at e. V4V2018@aol.com.

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Henry Bonges says:

November 20, 2025 at 9:37 am

Vermonters for Vermont Town Hall – an echo chamber of misinformation
I attended an energy town hall in Colchester sponsored by Vermonters for Vermont, Greg Thayer. The panel was made up of politicians and lobbyists. The exception being Julie Moore the VT ANR secretary. She was the closest to a subject matter expert.
The meeting concluded with a discussion of how climate action may be stopped to keep Vermont affordable. The conclusion should have been how can we (inclusive, all) work to make renewable energy equitable and affordable saving money for Vermonters – and address climate action.
A lot of work went into assembling this town hall, but there was no fact checking or subject matter experts, so misinformation flowed freely. I have tried to correct this in the following.
Examples of the misinformation expressed at the meeting and the corrections:
-The cost of sustainable energy was brought up as being too expensive for Vermonters. A response was how homeowners installed solar power, and the solar has paid off and the energy (electricity) is now free for the life of the solar panels (50+ years likely, 30 guaranteed) and this includes an EV (so no gas cost). Compare this to fossil fuel prices that can vary widely from year to year, how is free energy too expensive for Vermonters? One response was that solar does not pay off w/o subsidies. Again wrong, it just does not pay off as fast and leaves out the trillions of fossil fuel subsidies – these should be stopped but we all know they will not be. The tariffs on solar panels from China (supplying much of the world with low cost solar) will affect this, a possible self-inflicted negative outcome. The comment was also made not everyone can put solar on their roof. Of course all cannot, the utilities such as GMP need to expand solar. We also need to approve Balcony Solar (or portable solar) that will be on the Vermont legislature Spring 2026 docket.
-EV batteries and solar panels will create a huge trash problem. Wrong also as these can first be repurposed (e.g. use car batteries as grid batteries) then 85% recycled. However, the recycling industry for these is nascent and needs to be developed.
-EV’s cannot go the long distances one wants to go, and one cannot stop for several hours to charge. Wrong on EV charge time, fast chargers are 20 minutes. And partially right on EV distance, but as I had previously said in the meeting, we need to target our infrastructure and policy on the coming EV’s, with 600+ mile ranges and 10-minute charge time. An EV is all about the battery, coupled with charging infrastructure.
-CO2 is necessary for life. This statement was to supposedly justify no limits on CO2, but it is the dose that makes the poison. Chromium and Copper are among many elements that are essential for life – but in higher does are toxic. Even arsenic may be essential for human life. I believe lead is the only toxin with no acceptable limit.
-More CO2 promotes great plant growth and will be good for the Sugaring industry. This is a hangover of a 1970’s fossil fuel campaign. A slight increase in CO2 can help promote some plants growth, but a limited effect. And the climate change that high CO2 concentrations bring with it is very detrimental to the Vermont Maple Sugaring industry, pushing sugaring north. Vermont may need to look into other maple species that will better tolerate the heat as the Vermont climate becomes non-supporting for Sugar Maples, pushing their growing zone north. The beloved Holsteins are also not heat tolerant.
-How solar is not a base level power source and fossil fuels are needed – or nuclear (gen 5 was not mentioned, modular was). Yes solar by itself is not sufficient but combined with wind and batteries is close to a total renewable solution (and tidal and geothermal). Add an improved grid for wider and efficient distribution and you may be there.
-The inability of the grid to support millions of EV’s and solar. To what extent the grid will not support such is debatable, but it is widely agreed the grid needs a significant upgrade. Yet the current administration has stopped grid improvements such as the $4.9 billion Grain Belt Express high-voltage transmission line and $1.2 billion for California’s hydrogen hub and other grid modernization efforts. The grid concerns have a solution; we just need to do it.
-Germanys economy has crashed due to the country moving to solar from nuclear. Not correct, but there are details and complications. Germany is the world’s third largest economy, but it has stagnated for several reasons. From an energy perspective, the problem has not been renewables but the high cost and volatility of fossil fuels. Germany is Europe’s largest energy exporter, and for obvious reasons the country (along with most of Europe) is moving off of Russian oil and natural gas as quickly as possible. My personal comment on this is if Germany (or any country) is developing new energy source, build where you want to go (renewables) not committing to 30+ year fossil fuel plants.
-Large diesel does not work as an EV. Correct, this area needs work. The coming generation of EV batteries may work, and hydrogen is a possibility but will require its own infrastructure. LNG, propane, biodiesel – are all fossil fuels made more presentable, a true renewable energy solution needs to be developed for large diesel.
-Confusing weather and climate, and how Vermont used to be covered by ice (glaciers) and how volcanoes have affected the climate – so why do anything since climate changes? The first response is to read Plows, Plagues and Petroleum by William Ruddiman. The second is yes climate does vary, but we are now in an age of anthropogenic change and we are changing the climate at a very fast rate. We (humans) are making this planet uninhabitable for our grandchildren, very possibly our children. If that is the legacy one wants to leave, then keep burning that coal.
-Geoengineering was mentioned as a solution but not discussed. This is good as such would never work but make things worse, and be the death throws of a livable planet. I base this statement on the dramatic failure of animal translocations which is much simpler, and we are still learning how to do it correctly. E.g. 1859 translocation of rabbits to Australia, 1851 sparrows to the U.S., 1946 Beavers got to Tierra del Fuego. Now geoengineering is proposed, and to the uninitiated sounds great at first. With geoengineering there will be oops that did not work as expected, can we start over? No.
It is irresponsible for panel members to freely fabricate grossly inaccurate responses which support some political or business position. This is wrong, the panel members should be held accountable.
Lastly, read Bill McKibben’s latest book “Here Comes the Sun”. If you’ve read this far you deserve this treat.

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