“The city has made their bed,” Scott’s top cop tells WCAX reporter
By Guy Page
A week and a day after three children ages 14-16 beat a man to death on Church Street in broad daylight August 11, Burlington Mayor Emma Mulvaney-Stanak told a concerned audience of downtown business people that “Governor Phil Scott has not been a strong partner” in solving Burlington’s crime problem.
The Progressive mayor’s statement was repeated by WCAX reporter Ike Ben-David at Scott’s Wednesday, August 20 press conference in Montpelier. The reporter and the governor then engaged in a spirited back and forth, seasoned with questions by yours truly and a ‘don’t-point-fingers-at-the-governor’ lecture from Vermont’s top cop, Public Safety Commissioner Jennifer Morrison.
Lightly edited for brevity and readability, here’s their back-and-forth.
WCAX: State tax revenue shows Burlington retail and restaurants aren’t growing economically. What specifically are you doing to help Burlington?
Scott: The Canadian tariff situation isn’t helping the city at all. [He also mentioned the numerous downtown infrastructure construction projects.] And I would have to say the lack of enforcement of some of what we’re seeing in the city is impacting them. So I think it’s a combination that isn’t a good mix for economic vitality. Some of that will probably be repaired when the projects are completed, when the tariff situation with Canada, hopefully in a way that is conducive to Canadians coming back to visit Vermont.
And if they put more emphasis on enforcement of some of the laws in regards to drug use. I think that would help.
WCAX: Well, what specifically are you doing? It’s the economic engine, one might say, of the state.
Scott: Well, I wouldn’t say it’s the economic engine. There’s a lot of other areas throughout the state, throughout Chittenden County and Franklin County and Lamoille County and Washington County. We haven’t been asked to do anything. We would be happy to assist in any way we possibly can. We are all ears in terms of what the request would be.
WCAX: Yesterday at a town hall with hundreds of businesses the mayor and I quote said, “I want you to hear that Governor Scott has not been a strong partner in this.” Is that true?
Scott: I haven’t been a partner to what they’re doing. If they need some help with law enforcement, be happy to talk about that, but it would be under some conditions.
WCAX She says she’s reached out. she’s invited you to speak…..
Scott: I don’t recall any of that, but we’ll look back and see what correspondence we’ve received.
WCAX: When was the last time you walked down Church Street or through City Hall Park?
Scott: I’d say it’s been a while up Church Street. I don’t know. I’ve been to Burlington a number of times over the last few years. You know, in between floods and pandemics.
WCAX: But have you walked through City Hall Park, Church Street yourself recently?
Scott: I can’t say that I’ve been recently. I think the last time I was at City Hall was when Hamas invaded Israel [October, 2023].
WCAX: You haven’t seen what it currently looks like, with what many businesses are saying is open drug use and open crime. You have not seen that.
Scott: Heard that but I haven’t seen that myself. Correct.
WCAX: What’s that message to Vermonters?
Scott: I think there’s a lot of other Vermonters that are avoiding Burlington as well. I think that’s what it says.
WCAX: Are you saying you’re avoiding Burlington?
Scott: No, I’m just saying that I haven’t visited there. I haven’t visited, I haven’t walked down Barre and through Barry or Montpelier lately either. I haven’t been to Rutland City and walked through their downtown. So, I don’t think it’s any different than any other major city we have in the state.
At this point, Ben-David’s extended line of questioning prompted me to ask:
VDC: Is she [Mulvaney-Stanak] just blaming you? She trying to shift blame for her own policies?
Gov. Scott: I think it’s easy to blame others when some of your strategies are failing.
VDC reporter Paul Bean: The president just took law enforcement in DC, or at least with the National Guard. Is that a strategy you would want to see in Burlington?
Gov. Scott: Not without working with the local community. I don’t think the National Guard is appropriate for Burlington. They have their struggles, but we’re not at that level at this point. I think a step up enforcement is necessary, but I don’t think the National Guard is the answer. Nor do I for Washington DC.
After further discussion of the governor’s presumed role in the Burlington crime problem, Departy of Public Safety (DPS) Commissioner and former Burlington police chief Jennifer Morrison stepped up to the mike to have her say. Directing her comments to WCAX’s Ben-David, she said:
Morrison: So, I don’t know how long you’ve been tracking the situation in Burlington, but none of this happened overnight.This is years and years and years of policy decisions, budgetary decisions, the city council decisions that have led to the situation in Burlington.
And to come around on point and somehow point a finger at the governor belies the reality for the people who lived through that as city employees.
My colleagues at AHS (Agency of Human Services) and at DPS and others across state government do engage with the city of Burlington quite regularly. We recently paid for, out of a federal grant, to bring a project to the city of Burlington called the Situation Table that brings together stakeholders to solve complex cases of people who are at acutely elevated risk of harm or overdosing or recidivism.
We are bringing tools to that community. We do talk to them on the regular.
The problems in Burlington did not occur overnight. They will not be fixed overnight. And it requires that everybody commit to principles of accountability. shifting the pendulum back to the middle so that the use of public spaces is just as important for lawabiding people and businesses to thrive as it is for service resistant people who make others afraid or commit crimes.
We also need commitments to prosecute and detain people who continue to harm the community. It frustrates me, as somebody who spent 23 years policing that city, and as the interim chief in 2020, to hear people somehow point the finger at a governor when I lived through the decisions that got us to where we are now. And it was not the fault of the police chief or the police chief after me. And it certainly was not the fault of this governor.
The city has made their bed and they are going to have to ask for specifics to help turn the corner. We are here to partner with the city of Burlington just as we are in Brattleboro, Bennington, Springfield, Rutland, St. Johnsbury, Barre and Montpelier and now in Woodstock and Hartford.
We are willing to engage in crime reduction strategies but we can’t be the ones directing the work. We don’t come in and do something to a community. We work in partnership with communities who need state level resources because they’ve exhausted the local resources. So that’s how this works.
I really resent the implication, whether it’s your implication or the mayor’s, that somehow Governor Scott is responsible for anything that has happened in the Queen City.
WCAX: And to be clear, I quoted the mayor earlier.
Morrison: Okay – just – good. Well, then we’re good.
The exchange, reported on WCAX and elsewhere, has resulted in intensive social media commentary, including these remarks by Rep. Zak Harvey (R-Castleton): “Burlington is on the brink. The current situation has been years in the making at the hands of the city’s mayor and its city council. Citizens and businesses are pleading for help — when will Burlington’s leaders answer their cries and address this public safety crisis?”
